April 20, 2024 / By: Josh Kitchen
To Joe Kwaczala, comedian and host of the podcast, "Who Care About the Rock Hall?", this day of the year is sort of like Christmas Eve. Tomorrow, April 21, the 2024 Class of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame will be announced. For the first time, the inductees will be announced live on prime time during American Idol. On deck will be Rock Hall inductee host Lionel Richie (inducted in 2022) and guest mentor Gene Simmons of KISS (inducted in 2014) - who has not exactly always been the Rock Hall's greatest cheerleader. In 2021, Simmons tweeted, "RR Hall of Fame is a sham not to include Maiden. Disgusting!" when Iron Maiden were overlooked.
The story of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has been a messy one. On one hand it's regarded as the greatest honor in music, and on the other, acts like the Sex Pistols, the Pretenders' Chrissie Hynde, and Cher, have all slammed it in recent years. In the end, the house always seems to win, and we keep talking about the Hall, the nominees, and the ceremonies. Kwaczala has been talking about the Rock Hall since 2018, along with fellow comedian co-host Kristen Studard and a plethora of guests like Jimmy Pardo, River Butcher, and Rock Hall legends like Seymour Stein and Bob Merlis. And also, me. I was a guest on the podcast in 2022 after I attended the 2022 Rock Hall Ceremony.
Joe returned the favor for Setlist Kitchen and we had a wide ranging discussion about the 2024 nominees, the state of the Rock Hall and its history, and I went to bat for Huey Lewis and The News when I hit Joe with my personal top 10 Rock Hall Snubs.
Joe Kwaczala photographed by Maya Adrabi
Let's start off by talking yourself and the podcast. Why the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
So, I'm a stand up comedian and writer by trade. That's what I've been doing for the past decade or so, and it's my understanding that every comedian has to have a podcast. It is written in the laws of the land. I did want to explore something in this medium. I didn't just want to do a podcast where it's comedians goofing around, riffing with each other and chatting about whatever. A fine format, but in my opinion, there's plenty of those shows. I wanted to have a unique approach. By that point, I had realized after having done other people's podcasts where the theme was “bring in something you know a lot about” that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a thing I've been following, with a degree of intensity since I was a kid, is not something anyone really pays attention to. That quality is what defines it to a lot of people in the world. And to a lot of people in the music community and the music fan community, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame exists as this allegedly pointless institution that is simultaneously the most important honor in music.
Why does it make people so mad? Something I learned by doing these podcasts is people would be like, “You want to talk about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Okay, whatever." And then I would come in, and we'd get talking and they would get heated and they had very strong opinions. And I just it felt like there was a lot of either misinformation, or, I suppose a lack of knowledge about how this thing runs and its history. As I considered all those things at once, it felt like this is fertile ground for a show. And my friend Kristen [Studard], who is also a music lover, had been talking to me about trying to do some sort of podcast, potentially about music, and all these things were kind of coming to a head at the same time. And now, you know, here we are six years having gone deep with people, formerly and currently involved and enmeshed in the process, along with many others, whether they be comedian friends of mine, or people who are scholars and have written books about artists and everything in between.
At this point, the Rock Hall sort of reminds me of the modern-day Catholic Church. It's losing people. It feels like it has to adapt or die, whether that means casting a wider net of genres and type of performers it includes. Over the past decade or so it’s begun to do that with the inclusion of hip-hop, pop, and country artists. Can you talk about the idea of the Rock Hall as an institution in transition?
It's both new and familiar at the same time. You look at the first few classes of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and you don't see a lot of rock bands, and the public perception might be that you would. But it doesn't start with The Beatles and The Rolling Stones - it starts with James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, and Little Richard. How many of those artists satisfy what people think of now as “rock and roll?”
Then you look at the next class, and you're seeing Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, and The Coasters. And then, not long after that is The Supremes and Otis Redding. The way I look at it, and the way I know that the hall looks at it, is you want to look at these originators - the founding fathers and mothers who established a genre, and you want to follow where things go from there. Like any flowchart, it starts where things are close to each other, and as they go down, they get wider apart.
So, you might see an artist like Mariah Carey, who's on the ballot this year, that traditionalists might raise an eyebrow to. But if you can draw it back to Whitney Houston, you can draw it back to Aretha Franklin. And now we're getting back to the beginnings of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and rock and roll that people do not have issues with. It's just all coming to a head very suddenly, when it could have been kind of sprinkled along the way, which is why I think it seems like more of a sea change than it actually is.
I want to say congrats on the Kool & the Gang nomination this year! For people who don't listen to the show, there are some acts that you and Kristen are passionate about, so you start these campaigns with voters on the podcast where you lobby for their votes for nominations and inductions. Can you talk about that?
Thank you, I will be taking credit. With Kool & the Gang specifically, I think they traditionally had been an underrated group. I feel like they were dismissed as a party band, that isn’t sophisticated enough like an Earth, Wind and Fire. Earth, Wind and Fire had these messages that would seem a little more sociopolitical, whereas Kool & The Gang were mostly about having a good time. “Celebrate good times, come On!” My Fandom of Kool & the Gang came after I felt like I honed in on them as a particularly worthy act that was not getting the accolades they deserved. I just felt as though they had checked every box. I can play devil's advocate for pretty much any group that's not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in a convincing way, I think. But with Kool & The Gang, it just didn't feel like there was anything truly holding them back, except for just some sort of consensus that's unspoken, about them, and it just didn't feel right to me. It also felt like they didn't have really an advocate in the room at all. This is a group that from the ‘60s to the ‘80s who had so many different eras of hits and were such an accomplished group of jazz musicians who were playing funk who helped to usher in that really important funk era.
Dr. Julius Hibbert's Kool & The Gang Air Freshener from The Simpsons Season 15 episode, "I, (Annoyed Grunt)-bot"
Then in the ‘80’s they managed to thrive by adding a lead singer and having the most success without really compromising their ideals. And they have at least a half dozen songs that everyone knows. I had thought of that and was bringing it up with committee members. What really started to kind of strengthen my position was we kept losing original members. Right after the other, we lost Ronald Bell, Dee Tee Thomas, and George “Funky” Brown. So I broke format and wrote a concise case where I would lay it out for five to ten minutes. The idea would be that if any nominating committee members or voter heard it, it would convince them and they’d delve deep into their influence. Whether it's a coincidence or not that after my electioneering, they got on the ballot, and it feels good. And I am going to take the credit.
You’re part of Kool & the Gang lore now. Do you think they'll be inducted? [Along with Kool and The Gang, the 2024 nominees include: Mary J. Blige, Mariah Carey, Cher, Dave Matthews Band, Eric B. & Rakim, Foreigner, Peter Frampton, Jane's Addiction, Lenny Kravitz, Oasis, Sinéad O'Connor, Ozzy Osbourne (solo), Sade, and
A Tribe Called Quest.]
I think they have a good shot, but it's going to be tough. I think there's a lot of competition on this ballot. You have a lot of artists that I think are right in the wheelhouse of the classic rock voters like Peter Frampton, Ozzy Osbourne, and Foreigner, and if they end up splitting votes and one of them doesn't make it I think Ozzy has a really good shot.
Now I want to give you my list of personal top ten Rock Hall snubs, and I want your honest and unvarnished opinions on their induction chances.
I'm ready to be brutally honest.
10. EELS – eligible since 2022 – never nominated
I was kind of thinking of what categories I would put these in beforehand, and I think this one I would put in the category of “be serious.” God Bless Mark [Oliver Everett] and I like some of his songs like “Novocaine for the Soul”, but no, absolutely too obscure.
9. Bjork – eligible since 2003 – never nominated
Bjork is interesting. Some people get very, very passionate about Bjork. I have a I have a running list of worthy artists that have never made the ballot that's on vulture.com, and I've had people say, “It's crazy that Bjork isn't on there.” She's an interesting case for the Hall, and I think it could happen. Sometimes her position as a cultural weirdo is stronger than the recognition of her musical work, and Bjork never had a massive hit on the hot 100. She made her mark on MTV to certain extent, and has an album on Rolling Stone’s 500 greatest albums list, so I think Bjork could make the ballot at some point.
8. Brian Wilson (solo career) – eligible since 1982 – never nominated
The way I feel about this is that there really isn't any point that when Brian Wilson was the mastermind of the Beach Boys and there is not a such a significant or distinct enough solo career. It's really not worthy of separate distinction when he's the Hall with The Beach Boys.
7. Gram Parsons – eligible since 1993 – nominated in 2002, 2004, 2005
I think he’s gonna make the ballot again. It is crazy that it's been so long, especially when there was that period of time you mentioned when it felt like he was going to be a priority. He is often considered among the greatest artists of all time, and he was not inducted with The Byrds. If he had been, that might make the conversation a little bit different. Gram Parsons is one of the few who are on the Rolling Stone “Immortals” list of their 100 Greatest Artists of All Time. I think he's an important figure in bridging country and rock, and with Willie Nelson and Dolly Parton getting in recently, Gram is someone who’s kind of the missing piece of the puzzle. I think he's too important of a figure to be completely forgotten.
6. The Smiths – eligible since 2009 – nominated in 2015, 2016
The Smiths are among the biggest snubs any way you cut it. I've referenced these Rolling Stone lists a lot as a way to get an idea of critical consensus and they always show up. The Smiths, Meat is Murder, The Queen is Dead, and Louder Than Bombs were all on the 2003 Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums of all time list. They had kind of a spotless career of really great music. And I look at Oasis on the ballot this year, and I think them getting in before The Smiths just doesn't make any sense.
It seems like the issue might come down to Morrissey being, well, Morrissey.
And specifically, I mean, Morrissey's rhetoric as of late. He's been extremely xenophobic and anti- immigrant in a very open and disgusting way. And I think that majorly complicates things.
5. Jim Croce – eligible since 1992 – never nominated
“Bad Bad Leroy Brown” is probably the only song I know from him because that would get some radio play on the good classic rock station I had growing up in Pittsburgh where they'd go deeper than your normal classic rock station. And I think that kind of speaks to the fact that I get the sense that Jim is maybe not in the in the rock canon enough and that he's more associated with country or folk. I get the sense that the hall is not interested.
4. DEVO – eligible since 2003 – nominated 2019, 2021, 2022
DEVO just has to be on the right ballot, and I would love for it to be at a ceremony in Cleveland. I really do not want to see them go into the side category. I have not had the opportunity to vote for DEVO yet, and I love them so much. If they were on this ballot this year, they would have been probably number two for me after Kool and The Gang. DEVO were so inventive. They were so new and strange, but still managed to make songs that either rocked or were very popular. There's a lot of people who know them just for “Whip It,” but if you look at their debut album, produced by Brian Eno, Q. Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!, it’s not just great, but I think it’s influential. They were a revelatory, bizarre, funny, and crucial band, and they still sound fucking awesome.
3. Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds – eligible since 2010 – never nominated
I think they are the definitive cult band. They put out music that a certain type of person likes a lot, and Cave himself is well regarded as a very solid musician. But to be real. I don't see it. I think that beyond people who are really big fans of them, I think that they are just too obscure. They don’t have a song that kind of broke through, which is really tough.
2. Los Lobos – eligible since 2004 – nominated in 2016
I really like Los Lobos. And it almost felt like a miracle that they made that ballot then. I think it’s because they've got a lot of love from critics or industry people just because I think anyone who knows them knows that they are an excellent band. And they occupy an interesting space as a Chicano band, where there aren't many who have broken through onto the hot 100 or the American Zeitgeist. There’s their cover of “La Bamba” which went to number one, and How Will The Wolf Survive? Which is on the 500 Greatest Albums from Rolling Stone. that made the Rolling Stone list before. Will they ever make a return to the ballot? I think they will, but I don’t see the urgency right now.
1. Huey Lewis and The News – eligible since 2006 – never nominated
They have a dozen huge hits. “I Want a New Drug,” “The Power of Love,” “If This Is it?” “Workin' for a Livin',” “Doing It All For My Baby,” I could go on. I am a Huey Lewis cheerleader. I love the guy, and he's nice as hell. Sports and Fore! are iconic albums.
I can't believe this is your number one.
Believe it, Joe. Here is me and Huey.
Huey pumps out stone cold classics all the time, and he's so underrated! The world owes a lot of respect to Huey Lewis.
Well, you know, it's interesting. And I do think about Huey Lewis from time to time because Huey Lewis and the News had a string of very big hits. It's undeniable. Starting with “Do You Believe In Love” in ’82. I'll list off the ones that you still hear on the radio. I listen to terrestrial radio exclusively, so I know what's being played: “Do You Believe In Love” "Heart and Soul”, "I Want a New Drug”, “Stuck With You”, “The Heart of Rock and Roll”, “If This Is It?”, “The Power of Love”, and “Hip to Be Square” – those are played all the time. Now that's a period that's stretching from ‘82 to ‘86. That’s three albums, and four if you include the Back to the Future soundtrack. The reign of Huey Lewis was about five years. He continued to have hits like “Perfect World” or “Couple Days Off,” but those have evaporated from public consciousness. So sometimes you have to look at this stuff with what is part of the legacy, and he had quite a run. But sometimes I look at a band like the Dave Clark Five who made the hall, and they had a lot of hits, but it was really just over the course of maybe two years, and they got in twenty years after The Beatles, so maybe that’s the fate of Huey Lewis, they don’t get in when they become eligible. Maybe we’ll start to talk about them in 2026.
Sometimes you like to see a Hall of Fame career who had music in the ‘80s but continued to evolve and continue to be wildly successful in subsequent decades. Whereas Huey Lewis, he had that period from ‘82 to ’86.
After six years, what are you proudest of about the podcast?
It has to be the fact that I got a ballot. If I didn't get a ballot, I probably would have taken a little sabbatical. I'm a comedian. And my goals are to work as a comedian, write, and act. I've been very lucky to do those things, and do stand up on TV, and work in my field. But also, I have this weird hobby and obsession. At times, I have felt like, have I wasted my time that I could have devoted to my craft with this thing that is not going to help me in my career? But the fact that I am now an official Rock Hall voter truly makes all of it worth it. I cannot believe that I get to vote in this thing. And I'm, I am humbled to be a part of it.
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